Dr. Ricky Rood's Climate Change Blog

Heat Waves (4) A Climate Case Study:
Posted by: Dr. Ricky Rood, 6:26 AM GMT op 19 juli 2011 +9
Heat Waves (4) A Climate Case Study:

In the last article I wrote that the extreme events of 2011 were providing us with the opportunity to think about climate and how to cope with a warming world. The U.S. is experiencing an extreme heat event this week (Masters @ WU). This heat wave is the consequence of a strong, stationary high pressure system over the central U.S., and it will move to the east over the next few days. Back on July 14th The Capital Weather Gang did a nice write up on the forecast of the heat wave. At the end of this blog are links to my previous blogs on heat waves and human health.

When thinking about weather, climate, and extreme events an important idea is “persistence.” For example, a heat wave occurs when there are persistent high temperatures. Persistent weather patterns occur when high and low pressure systems get large and stuck; that is, they don’t move. In the Figure below, you need to imagine North America and the United States. There is a high pressure center over the proverbial Heartland. With blue arrows I have drawn the flow of air around the high pressure system, and in this case moist air. There is moisture coming from the Gulf of Mexico and, in fact on the date when this was drawn, from the Pacific. This is common in the summer to see both the Gulf of Mexico and Pacific as sources of continental moisture.



Figure 1: Schematic of a high pressure system over the central United States in July. While generic, this is drawn to represent some of the specifics of 2011. The green-shaded area is where there have been floods in 2011. The brown-shaded area represents sustained drought in the southern part of the nation.

At the center of this high pressure system there is a suppression of rain, because the air is moving downward. This sets up a situation where the surface heats from the Sun’s energy. There is not much mixing and cooling, because of the suppression of the upward motion that produces rain. Hence, if this high pressure system gets stuck, then there is persistent heat. This is a classic summer heat wave.

Let’s think about it some more. There is lot of moisture being drawn around the edge of the high pressure system, and this moisture contributes to the discomfort of people. People – just a short aside about people: if we think about heat and health, then we are concerned about people’s ability to cool themselves. It is more difficult to cool people when it is humid because sweat does not evaporate. Suppose that in addition to this moisture, there is a region where the ground is soaked with water from flooding. Then on top of already moist air coming from the Gulf, there is local evaporation into the air being warmed by the Sun. If on the interior of the high, where the rain is suppressed, there is hot, wet air, then it becomes dangerous heat.

It’s not easy to derive a number that describes dangerous heat. But in much of the eastern U.S. a number that somehow combines temperature and humidity is useful. Meteorologists often use the heat index. It’s the summer time version of “it’s 98 degrees, but it feels like 105.” For moist climates, the heat index is one version of the “it feels like” temperature. Jeff Masters tells me that in Newton, Iowa yesterday, July 17, 2011, the heat index was 126 degrees F. (see here, and 131 F in Knoxville, Iowa on July 18)

Another measure of heat and humidity is the dew point; that is, the temperature at which dew forms, and effectively limits the nighttime low. The dew points in Iowa, South Dakota, Minnesota, and Wisconsin are currently very high and setting records. Here is a map of dew point for July 19, 2011.



Figure 2: Exceptionally high dew points centered on Iowa.


Now if I was a public health official, and I was trying to understand how a warming planet might impact my life, then here is how I would think about it. First, the Gulf of Mexico and the Pacific are going to be warmer, and hence, there will be more humid air. This will mean, with regard to human health for the central U.S., heat waves will become more dangerous, without necessarily becoming hotter. It is also reasonable to expect heat waves will become more frequent and last longer, because those persistent, stuck high pressure systems are, in part, forced by the higher sea surface temperatures. If I am a public health official here is my algorithm – heat waves are already important to my life, and they are likely to get more dangerous, more frequent, and of longer duration. But by how much? Do I need to know by how much before I decide on a plan for action?

If I think about the air being more humid, then I might expect to see trends in the heat index. I might expect to see trends in dew points, and trends in the nighttime minimum temperatures getting higher. (That’s where a greenhouse effect really matters.) I worry about persistent heat, warm nights, and the inability of people and buildings to cool themselves. I worry about their being dangerous heat in places where people and emergency rooms are not used to dangerous heat – not acclimated to heat – not looking for heat-related illness.

Let’s go back to the figure. Rain is suppressed in the middle of the high pressure system, but around the edge of the high pressure system it will rain; there will be storms. (see Figure 3 at the end) The air around the edge of high is warm and very wet. Wet air is energetic air, and it is reasonable to expect local severe storms. (See Severe Storm on Lake Michigan) And if the high pressure is persistent, stuck, then days of extreme weather are possible. If this pattern sets up, then there is increased likelihood of flooding. If I am that public health official, then I am alerted to the possibility of more extreme weather and the dangers thereof. But, again, can the increase of extreme weather be quantified? Do I need to quantify it before I decide on a plan of action?

Still with the figure - what about that region of extended drought and the heat from the high pressure system? Dehydration becomes a more important issue. As a public health official, I start to see the relation of the heat event to other aspects of the weather, the climate. I see the relation to drought. I see the flood, and it’s relation to the winter snow pack and spring rains.

So what I have presented here is to look at the local mechanisms of the weather – what are the basic underlying physics responsible for hot and cold, wet and dry – for moist air? If I stick to these basic physics, and let the climate model frame the more complex regional and global picture, what can I say about the future? Do I have to have a formal prediction to take action? Here in 2011, I see drought and flood and hot weather and warm oceans that interact together to make a period of sustained, dangerous heat. It does not have to “set a record” to convey the reality of the warming earth. It tells me the type of event that is likely to come more often, of longer duration, and of, perhaps, of greater intensity. If I am a public health planner, then I can know this with some certainty. The question becomes, how do I use that information in my planning?

r



Figure 3: Radar loop showing precipitation around the edge of the large high pressure system in the middle of the continent. July 19, 2011.

Previous Blogs on Heat Waves

Hot in Denver: Heat Waves (1)

Heat Waves (2): Heat and Humans

Heat Waves (3): Role of Global Warming




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601. nymore 8:04 PM GMT op 23 juli 2011    
To bad you already commented and were proven wrong. Maybe shooting fish in a barrel is not so easy for you
Member Since: 6 juli 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2048
602. yonzabam 8:09 PM GMT op 23 juli 2011    
Quoting nymore:
To bad you already commented and were proven wrong


No, you said the volcanoes produced 100 million times more aerosol than scientists had believed. That was a misinterpretation of what actually was being said, which was that the conversion rate of one sulfur containing molecule to another molecule was 100 million times what scientists had believed. Not the same thing at all.
Member Since: 20 juli 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 1711
603. nymore 8:13 PM GMT op 23 juli 2011    
Same result no matter how you get there
Member Since: 6 juli 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2048
604. Neapolitan 8:52 PM GMT op 23 juli 2011    
If it's true that volcanoes actually produce 100 million times more aerosol than scientists thought--as some have mistakenly interpreted the PNAS article's abstract--then that same logic would dictate that the greenhouse effect from CO2 is roughly 100 million times stronger than scientists think, since the planet's warm-up continues...

The fact is, now that China is scrubbing its coal plant emissions, the only hope for coolists is a huge eruption equivalent to 500 or so Pinatubos--or a massive influx of common sense leading to pushback against the world's largest polluters. Fat chance of either...
Member Since: 8 november 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11153
605. cyclonebuster 8:55 PM GMT op 23 juli 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:
If it's true that volcanoes actually produce 100 million times more aerosol than scientists thought--as some have mistakenly interpreted the PNAS article's abstract--then that same logic would dictate that the greenhouse effect from CO2 is roughly 100 million times stronger than scientists think, since the planet's warm-up continues...

The fact is, now that China is scrubbing its coal plant emissions, the only hope for coolists is a huge eruption equivalent to 500 or so Pinatubos--or a massive influx of common sense leading to pushback against the world's largest polluters. Fat chance of either...


Neapolitan,

My idea can fix the problem in ten years.
Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
606. JupiterKen 9:08 PM GMT op 23 juli 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:
If it's true that volcanoes actually produce 100 million times more aerosol than scientists thought--as some have mistakenly interpreted the PNAS article's abstract--then that same logic would dictate that the greenhouse effect from CO2 is roughly 100 million times stronger than scientists think, since the planet's warm-up continues...

The fact is, now that China is scrubbing its coal plant emissions, the only hope for coolists is a huge eruption equivalent to 500 or so Pinatubos--or a massive influx of common sense leading to pushback against the world's largest polluters. Fat chance of either...

How do you think we should "push back"? Really :.
Member Since: 3 mei 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 295
607. cyclonebuster 9:10 PM GMT op 23 juli 2011    
Quoting JupiterKen:

How do you think we should "push back"? Really :.


Push back with F1>F2. It is that simple.
Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
608. greentortuloni 9:30 PM GMT op 23 juli 2011    
Quoting JupiterKen:

How do you think we should "push back"? Really :.


Somehow, via taxes or other means, raise the cost of gas to $10 per gallon and the equvilent for coal.

With that cost, alternative energy will go from making sense financially to making so much sense financially that those of us who don't care about the planet will actually use alternative forms of energy and the entropreneurs can pave the way to making alternative energy work.

At the same time, make any and all runoff pollution illegal.

Note: duh, replying to other post... push back fro tunnels.
Member Since: 5 juni 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 1188
609. nymore 9:49 PM GMT op 23 juli 2011    
Neopolitan- Well the study says it is true whether you believe it or not. All I have heard in the past is we need a volcano like Tambora to have a cooling effect now we find out we don't a little eruption can have major effects. Your logic that co2 has to be 100 million times as strong to make up for this effect is assuming man made co2 is 100% the cause this seems to prove it can not be.
Member Since: 6 juli 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2048
610. nymore 9:52 PM GMT op 23 juli 2011    
Green- I think you are right everything should cost at least 3 or 4 times what it costs now that way we can kill off all the poor and elderly people. This decrease in population should vastly help the rapid climate change. sarcasm on
Member Since: 6 juli 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2048
611. Neapolitan 10:21 PM GMT op 23 juli 2011    
Quoting nymore:
Neopolitan- Well the study says it is true whether you believe it or not. All I have heard in the past is we need a volcano like Tambora to have a cooling effect now we find out we don't a little eruption can have major effects. Your logic that co2 has to be 100 million times as strong to make up for this effect is assuming man made co2 is 100% the cause this seems to prove it can not be.

Again, as I hinted at and yonzabam stated, you're seriously misconstruing both the article and the abstract. I will happily discuss this or any other scientific finding with anyone here, but not until both parties have at least read the article in question and understand the basic concepts.
Member Since: 8 november 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11153
612. nymore 2:10 AM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
The ash particles basically act as seeds for cloud formation at lower altitudes and further distances causing more clouds and precipitation therefore cooling the atmosphere.
Member Since: 6 juli 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2048
613. nymore 2:22 AM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
The China coal burning causing cooling study appears to be wrong. I guess the boys at NASA, LATMOS and elsewhere don't seem to agree with the two economists and two geographers who wrote that article. Once again volcanoes seem to be the culprit. Link Neo I also would like to know the source of the 500 Pinatubo eruptions fact.
Member Since: 6 juli 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2048
614. cyclonebuster 2:27 AM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting nymore:
The ash particles basically act as seeds for cloud formation at lower altitudes and further distances causing more clouds and precipitation there for cooling the atmosphere.


There is a draw back to that. Yes it causes cooling but we don't want the cooling if it causes acid rain. See why Gulfstream Kinetic energy wins out again and again and again?
Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
615. nymore 2:34 AM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Cyclone-You should go to a venture capital firm if this is such a good idea. I know I would not tell anyone about my idea till I had patents and one fully built for testing.
Member Since: 6 juli 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2048
616. cyclonebuster 3:05 AM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting nymore:
Cyclone-You should go to a venture capital firm if this is such a good idea. I know I would not tell anyone about my idea till I had patents and one fully built for testing.


The patent was denied because they said it would change the weather.
Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
617. nymore 3:10 AM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Perhaps the IPCC was right when they said " In climate research and modeling, we should recognize that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear chaotic system, and therefore that the prediction of a specific future climate state is not possible"
Member Since: 6 juli 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2048
618. nymore 3:11 AM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
What did a venture capital firm say?
Member Since: 6 juli 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2048
619. cyclonebuster 3:20 AM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting nymore:
What did a venture capital firm say?


Never been to them.
Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
620. nymore 3:26 AM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
How else are you going to get money for this "pipe" dream
Member Since: 6 juli 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2048
621. cyclonebuster 3:29 AM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting nymore:
How else are you going to get money for this "pipe" dream


No idea.
Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
622. cyclonebuster 2:16 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
15th place now.



Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
623. greentortuloni 3:08 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
If anyone is interested in playing with an extremely simple model of CO2, Netlogo has a sample model called climate change. I'm not saying this model means anything since I don't think it could be any more simplistic, but it gets the basic concept across.

Download Netlogo (simple windows install), run it, open the file tab, models library, earth science, climate change.

Netlogo isn't malicious. It is freeware used a lot for simple agent based modeling.
Member Since: 5 juni 2006 Posts: 0 Comments: 1188
624. JupiterKen 3:56 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting cyclonebuster:


Push back with F1>F2. It is that simple.


Please provide a link or other information from a real, live person that agrees your device will function. No F1>F2 bull-hockey. Show how the kinetic energy at the inlet is sufficient to meet all the pipe losses.
Member Since: 3 mei 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 295
625. cyclonebuster 4:06 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting JupiterKen:


Please provide a link or other information from a real, live person that agrees your device will function. No F1>F2 bull-hockey. Show how the kinetic energy at the inlet is sufficient to meet all the pipe losses.


Fact is the larger diameter the pipe has the less frictional losses there are. Pascal proved F1>F2 is no bull hockey.

Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
626. cyclonebuster 4:09 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting greentortuloni:
If anyone is interested in playing with an extremely simple model of CO2, Netlogo has a sample model called climate change. I'm not saying this model means anything since I don't think it could be any more simplistic, but it gets the basic concept across.

Download Netlogo (simple windows install), run it, open the file tab, models library, earth science, climate change.

Netlogo isn't malicious. It is freeware used a lot for simple agent based modeling.


Will it model my tunnel idea?
Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
627. cyclonebuster 4:12 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Pascal's Principle

Pascal's principle states that a pressure applied to an enclosed fluid is transmitted everywhere in the fluid. Hence, if a pressure is applied to one side of an enclosed fluid, all the other walls containing the fluid feel the same pressure. The pressure is transmitted without being diminished.

Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
628. cyclonebuster 4:29 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Get them now!


Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
629. cyclonebuster 5:22 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Tied for 4th place.


Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
630. PurpleDrank 6:07 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
A Brief History of Ice Ages and Warming


Global warming started long before the "Industrial Revolution" and the invention of the internal combustion engine.

Global warming began 18,000 years ago as the earth started warming its way out of the Pleistocene Ice Age-- a time when much of North America, Europe, and Asia lay buried beneath great sheets of glacial ice.

Earth's climate and the biosphere have been in constant flux, dominated by ice ages and glaciers for the past several million years. We are currently enjoying a temporary reprieve from the deep freeze.

Approximately every 100,000 years Earth's climate warms up temporarily. These warm periods, called interglacial periods, appear to last approximately 15,000 to 20,000 years before regressing back to a cold ice age climate. At year 18,000 and counting our current interglacial vacation from the Ice Age is much nearer its end than its beginning.

Global warming during Earth's current interglacial warm period has greatly altered our environment and the distribution and diversity of all life. For example:


* Approximately 15,000 years ago the earth had warmed sufficiently to halt the advance of glaciers, and sea levels worldwide began to rise.

* By 8,000 years ago the land bridge across the Bering Strait was drowned, cutting off the migration of men and animals to North America.

* Since the end of the Ice Age, Earth's temperature has risen approximately 16 degrees F and sea levels have risen a total of 300 feet! Forests have returned where once there was only ice.



Over the past 750,000 years of Earth's history, Ice Ages have occurred at regular intervals, of approximately 100,000 years each.
Courtesy of Illinois State Museum



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631. Patrap 6:10 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
800,000 Year Record of Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Concentrations


Over the last 800,000 years, natural factors have caused the atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) concentration to vary within a range of about 170 to 300 parts per million (ppm). The concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere has increased by roughly 35 percent since the start of the industrial revolution. Globally, over the past several decades, about 80 percent of human-induced CO2 emissions came from the burning of fossil fuels, while about 20 percent resulted from deforestation and associated agricultural practices. In the absence of strong control measures, emissions projected for this century would result in the CO2 concentration increasing to a level that is roughly 2 to 3 times the highest level occurring over the glacial-interglacial era that spans the last 800,000 or more years.



Carbon dioxide concentration (parts per million) for the last 800,000 years, measured from trapped bubbles of air in an Antarctic ice core. More information: Climate Change Impacts on the U.S.
Member Since: 3 juli 2005 Posts: 371 Comments: 111403
632. PurpleDrank 6:14 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
During ice ages our planet is cold, dry, and inhospitable-- supporting few forests but plenty of glaciers and deserts. Like a spread of collosal bulldozers, glaciers have scraped and pulverized vast stretches of Earth's surface and completely destroyed entire regional ecosystems not once, but several times.

During Ice Ages winters were longer and more severe and ice sheets grew to tremendous size, accumulating to thicknesses of up to 8,000 feet!. They moved slowly from higher elevations to lower-- driven by gravity and their tremendous weight. They left in their wake altered river courses, flattened landscapes, and along the margins of their farthest advance, great piles of glacial debris.

During the last 3 million years glaciers have at one time or another covered about 29% of Earth's land surface or about 17.14 million square miles (44.38 million sq. km.) . What did not lay beneath ice was a largely cold and desolate desert landscape, due in large part to the colder, less-humid atmospheric conditions that prevailed.

During the Ice Age summers were short and winters were brutal. Animal life and especially plant life had a very tough time of it. Thanks to global warming, that has all now changed, at least temporarily.


The World 18,000 Years Ago

Before "global warming" started 18,000 years ago most of the earth was a frozen and arid wasteland. Over half of earth 's surface was covered by glaciers or extreme desert. Forests were rare.

Not a very fun place to live.


Our Present World

"Global warming" over the last 15,000 years has changed our world from an ice box to a garden. Today extreme deserts and glaciers have largely given way to grasslands, woodlands, and forests.

Wish it could last forever.

Member Since: 17 augustus 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 730
633. PurpleDrank 6:19 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
In the 1970s concerned environmentalists like Stephen Schneider of the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado feared a return to another ice age due to manmade atmospheric pollution blocking out the sun.

Since about 1940 the global climate did in fact appear to be cooling. Then a funny thing happened-- sometime in the late 1970s temperature declines slowed to a halt and ground-based recording stations during the 1980s and 1990s began reading small but steady increases in near-surface temperatures.

Fears of "global cooling" then changed suddenly to "global warming,"-- the cited cause:


manmade atmospheric pollution causing a runaway greenhouse effect.


What does geologic history have to offer in sorting through the confusion?

Quite a bit, actually.


Periods of Earth warming and cooling occur in cycles. This is well understood, as is the fact that small-scale cycles of about 40 years exist within larger-scale cycles of 400 years, which in turn exist inside still larger scale cycles of 20,000 years, and so on.


Example of regional variations in surface air temperature for the last 1000 years, estimated from a variety of sources, including temperature-sensitive tree growth indices and written records of various kinds, largely from western Europe and eastern North America. Shown are changes in regional temperature in ° C, from the baseline value for 1900. Compiled by R. S. Bradley and J. A. Eddy based on J. T. Houghton et al., Climate Change: The IPCC Assessment, Cambridge UniversityPress, Cambridge, 1990 and published in EarthQuest, vol 5, no 1, 1991. Courtesy of Thomas Crowley, Remembrance of Things Past: Greenhouse Lessons from the Geologic Record

Earth's climate was in a cool period from A.D. 1400 to about A.D. 1860, dubbed the "Little Ice Age." This period was characterized by harsh winters, shorter growing seasons, and a drier climate. The decline in global temperatures was a modest 1/2° C, but the effects of this global cooling cycle were more pronounced in the higher latitudes. The Little Ice Age has been blamed for a host of human suffering including crop failures like the "Irish Potato Famine" and the demise of the medieval Viking colonies in Greenland.

Today we enjoy global temperatures which have warmed back to levels of the so called "Medieval Warm Period," which existed from approximately A.D. 1000 to A.D. 1350.

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634. PurpleDrank 6:25 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Global warming alarmists maintain that global temperatures have increased since about A.D. 1860 to the present as the result of the so-called "Industrial Revolution,"-- caused by releases of large amounts of greenhouse gases (principally carbon dioxide) from manmade sources into the atmosphere causing a runaway "Greenhouse Effect."

Was man really responsible for pulling the Earth out of the Little Ice Age with his industrial pollution? If so, this may be one of the greatest unheralded achievements of the Industrial Age!

Unfortunately, we tend to overestimate our actual impact on the planet. In this case the magnitude of the gas emissions involved, even by the most aggressive estimates of atmospheric warming by greenhouse gases, is inadequate to account for the magnitude of temperature increases. So what causes the up and down cycles of global climate change?


Causes of Global Climate Change

Climate change is controlled primarily by cyclical eccentricities in Earth's rotation and orbit, as well as variations in the sun's energy output.

"Greenhouse gases" in Earth's atmosphere also influence Earth's temperature, but in a much smaller way. Human additions to total greenhouse gases play a still smaller role, contributing about 0.2% - 0.3% to Earth's greenhouse effect.


Major Causes of Global Temperature Shifts:

(1) Astronomical Causes

11 year and 206 year cycles: Cycles of solar variability ( sunspot activity )
21,000 year cycle: Earth's combined tilt and elliptical orbit around the Sun ( precession of the equinoxes )
41,000 year cycle: Cycle of the +/- 1.5° wobble in Earth's orbit ( tilt )
100,000 year cycle: Variations in the shape of Earth's elliptical orbit ( cycle of eccentricity )


(2) Atmospheric Causes

Heat retention: Due to atmospheric gases, mostly gaseous water vapor (not droplets), also carbon dioxide, methane, and a few other miscellaneous gases-- the "greenhouse effect"
Solar reflectivity: Due to white clouds, volcanic dust, polar ice caps


(3) Tectonic Causes

Landmass distribution: Shifting continents (continental drift) causing changes in circulatory patterns of ocean currents. It seems that whenever there is a large land mass at one of the Earth's poles, either the north pole or south pole, there are ice ages.
Undersea ridge activity: "Sea floor spreading" (associated with continental drift) causing variations in ocean displacement.




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635. PurpleDrank 6:30 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Astronomical Theory of Climate Change


The tilt of the earth relative to its plane of travel about the sun is what causes seasons. The hemisphere "pointing toward" the sun is in summer, while the opposite hemisphere is in winter. The earth makes one full orbit around the sun each year. The northern hemisphere is in summer in the left image, while 6 months later, the southern hemisphere has summer, as in the center image. If the earth's axis were "straight up and down" relative to the orbital plane, as in the right-hand image, there would be no seasons, since any given point at the top of the atmosphere would receive the same amount of sun each day of the year.

Changes in the "tilt" of the earth can change the severity of the seasons - more "tilt" means more severe seasons - warmer summers and colder winters; less "tilt" means less severe seasons - cooler summers and milder winters. The earth wobbles in space so that its tilt changes between about 22 and 25 degrees on a cycle of about 41,000 years. It is the cool summers which are thought to allow snow and ice to last from year to year in high latitudes, eventually building up into massive ice sheets. There are positive feedbacks in the climate system as well, because an earth covered with more snow reflects more of the sun's energy into space, causing additional cooling. In addition, it appears that the amount of Carbon Dioxide in the atmosphere falls as ice sheets grow, also adding to the cooling of the climate.

The earth's orbit around the sun is not quite circular, which means that the earth is slightly closer to the sun at some times of the year than others. The closest approach of the earth to the sun is called perihelion, and it now occurs in January, making northern hemisphere winters slightly milder. This change in timing of perihelion is known as the precession of the equinoxes, and occurs on a period of 22,000 years. 11,000 years ago, perihelion occurred in July, making the seasons more severe than today. The "roundness", or eccentricity, of the earth's orbit varies on cycles of 100,000 and 400,000 years, and this affects how important the timing of perihelion is to the strength of the seasons. The combination of the 41,000 year tilt cycle and the 22,000 year precession cycles, plus the smaller eccentricity signal, affect the relative severity of summer and winter, and are thought to control the growth and retreat of ice sheets. Cool summers in the northern hemisphere, where most of the earth's land mass is located, appear to allow snow and ice to persist to the next winter, allowing the development of large ice sheets over hundreds to thousands of years. Conversely, warmer summers shrink ice sheets by melting more ice than the amount accumulating during the winter.



What is The Milankovitch Theory? The Milankovitch or astronomical theory of climate change is an explanation for changes in the seasons which result from changes in the earth's orbit around the sun.

The theory is named for Serbian astronomer Milutin Milankovitch, who calculated the slow changes in the earth's orbit by careful measurements of the position of the stars, and through equations using the gravitational pull of other planets and stars. He determined that the earth "wobbles" in its orbit. The earth's "tilt" is what causes seasons, and changes in the tilt of the earth change the strength of the seasons. The seasons can also be accentuated or modified by the eccentricity (degree of roundness) of the orbital path around the sun, and the precession effect, the position of the solstices in the annual orbit.


What does The Milankovitch Theory say about future climate change?

Orbital changes occur over thousands of years, and the climate system may also take thousands of years to respond to orbital forcing. Theory suggests that the primary driver of ice ages is the total summer radiation received in northern latitude zones where major ice sheets have formed in the past, near 65 degrees north. Past ice ages correlate well to 65N summer insolation (Imbrie 1982). Astronomical calculations show that 65N summer insolation should increase gradually over the next 25,000 years, and that no 65N summer insolation declines sufficient to cause an ice age are expected in the next 50,000 - 100,000 years ( Hollan 2000, Berger 2002).

References:
Milankovitch, M. 1920. Theorie Mathematique des Phenomenes Thermiques produits par la Radiation Solaire. Gauthier-Villars Paris.

Milankovitch, M. 1930. Mathematische Klimalehre und Astronomische Theorie der Klimaschwankungen, Handbuch der Klimalogie Band 1 Teil A Borntrager Berlin.

Milankovitch, M. 1941 Kanon der Erdbestrahlungen und seine Anwendung auf das Eiszeitenproblem Belgrade.


http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/milankovitch.html


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636. atmoaggie 6:33 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting greentortuloni:


Somehow, via taxes or other means, raise the cost of gas to $10 per gallon and the equvilent for coal.

With that cost, alternative energy will go from making sense financially to making so much sense financially that those of us who don't care about the planet will actually use alternative forms of energy and the entropreneurs can pave the way to making alternative energy work.

At the same time, make any and all runoff pollution illegal.
There are many other costs to be paid upon the arbitrary increase of fuel.

For one example, the cost of food triples, the folks that can only marginally afford it buy food of less quality, others merely starve. The poorer quality foods consumed by those less well off than most anyone that comes up with such a plan, leads to higher health care costs and, potentially, a shorter life span.

Besides everyone's direct energy costs, do you guys ever consider the standard of living of the plethora of folks "just getting by"?
Member Since: 16 augustus 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
637. PurpleDrank 6:35 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Playing with Numbers

Global climate and temperature cycles are the result of a complex interplay between a variety of causes. Because these cycles and events overlap, sometimes compounding one another, sometimes canceling one another out, it is inaccurate to imply a statistically significant trend in climate or temperature patterns from just a few years or a few decades of data.

Unfortunately, a lot of disinformation about where Earth's climate is heading is being propagated by "scientists" who use improper statistical methods, short-term temperature trends, or faulty computer models to make analytical and anecdotal projections about the significance of man-made influences to Earth's climate.

During the last 100 years there have been two general cycles of warming and cooling recorded in the U.S. We are currently in the second warming cycle. Overall, U.S. temperatures show no significant warming trend over the last 100 years (1). This has been well - established but not well - publicized.



Each year Government press releases declare the previous year to be the "hottest year on record." The UN's executive summary on climate change, issued in January 2001, insists that the 20th century was the warmest in the last millennium. The news media distribute these stories and people generally believed them to be true. However, as most climatologists know, these reports generally are founded on ground-based temperature readings, which are misleading. The more meaningful and precise orbiting satellite data for the same period (which are generally not cited by the press) have year after year showed little or no warming.

Dr. Patrick Michaels has demonstrated this effect is a common problem with ground- based recording stations, many of which originally were located in predominantly rural areas, but over time have suffered background bias due to urban sprawl and the encroachment of concrete and asphalt ( the "urban heat island effect"). The result has been an upward distortion of increases in ground temperature over time(2). Satellite measurements are not limited in this way, and are accurate to within 0.1° C. They are widely recognized by scientists as the most accurate data available. Significantly, global temperature readings from orbiting satellites show no significant warming in the 18 years they have been continuously recording and returning data (1).
Member Since: 17 augustus 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 730
638. atmoaggie 6:41 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting yonzabam:


Hmmm. It really does say that. From the article:

In addition we demonstrate that the binary H2SO4 - H2O nucleation scheme, as it is usually considered in modeling studies, underestimates by 7 to 8 orders of magnitude the observed particle formation rate and, therefore, should not be applied in tropospheric conditions.

As I don't know what a 'nucleation scheme' is, I'm not in a position to comment.
(Assuming you are up for some light reading ;-) )

The classic Sulfate-CCN-albedo paper on that subject is this one: http://www.lmd.jussieu.fr/~obolmd/PDF/j.1600-0889 .47.issue3.1.x.pdf
The sulfate-CCN-cloud albedo effect.

Abstract:
Aerosol particles, such as sulfate aerosols, can act as cloud condensation nuclei (CCN). The CCN spectrum and the water vapour supply in a cloud determine the cloud droplet number concentration (CDNC) and hence the shortwave optical properties of low-level liquid clouds. The capability of anthropogenic aerosols to increase cloud reflectivity and thereby cool the Earth's surface is referred to as the indirect effect of anthropogenic aerosols. To obtain an estimate of this effect on climate, we empirically relate the CDNC, and thus the cloud optical properties, of two general circulation models (GCM) to the sulfate aerosol mass concentration derived from a chemical transport model. Based on a series of model experiments, the normalized globally averaged indirect forcing is about - 1W/m2 and ranges from 0.5 to - 1.5W/m2 in both GCMs for different experiments. However, it is argued that the total uncertainty of the forcing is certainly larger than this range. The overall agreement between the two climate models is good, although the geographical distributions of the forcing are somewhat different. The highest forcings occur in and off the coasts of the polluted regions of the Northern Hemisphere. The regional distribution of the forcing and the land/sea contrast are very sensitive to the choice of the CDNC-sulfate mass relationship. The general patterns of the forcing, and the appropriateness of the different CDNC-sulfate mass relationships, are assessed. We also examine the simulated droplet effective radii and compare them with satellite retrievals.

Now, much work has been done since this 1995 paper to refine the quantification of the effect, but it is, indeed, still a moving target.
Member Since: 16 augustus 2007 Posts: 6 Comments: 12461
639. PurpleDrank 6:49 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
A Matter of Opinion
Member Since: 17 augustus 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 730
640. PurpleDrank 6:50 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
A Matter of Opinion

Has manmade pollution in the form of carbon dioxide (CO2) and other gases caused a runaway Greenhouse Effect and Global Warming?

Before joining the mantra, consider the following:

1. The idea that man-made pollution is responsible for global warming is not supported by historical fact. The period known as the Holocene Maximum is a good example-- so-named because it was the hottest period in human history. The interesting thing is this period occurred approximately 7500 to 4000 years B.P. (before present)-- long before humans invented industrial pollution.




2. CO2 in our atmosphere has been increasing steadily for the last 18,000 years-- long before humans invented smokestacks ( Figure 1). Unless you count campfires and intestinal gas, man played no role in the pre-industrial increases.



As illustrated in this chart of Ice Core data from the Soviet Station Vostok in Antarctica, CO2 concentrations in earth's atmosphere move with temperature. Both temperatures and CO2 have been on the increase for 18,000 years. Interestingly, CO2 lags an average of about 800 years behind the temperature changes-- confirming that CO2 is not a primary driver of the temperature change.

Incidentally, earth's temperature and CO2 levels today have reached levels similar to a previous interglacial cycle of 120,000 - 140,000 years ago. From beginning to end this cycle lasted about 20,000 years. This is known as the Eemian Interglacial Period and the earth returned to a full-fledged ice age immediately afterward.

3. Total human contributions to greenhouse gases account for only about 0.28% of the "greenhouse effect".


NOTE: "Human additions" represent such a small percentage of the total Greenhouse Effect (0.28%) that they are barely visible in this "pie chart" at the scale represented.
-Atmospheric concentrations of the various greenhouse gases have been adjusted for heat retention potential of each. For example, the global warming potential (GWP) of various man-made chloroflourocarbons (CFC's) range between 1,300 and 9,300 times greater potency as greenhouse gases than CO2. Methane has a GWP of about 21 and nitrous oxide a GWP of about 310.
-Comparing greenhouse gases by strict concentration only, the total human component is somewhere between 0.1% and 0.2%, depending on whose numbers you use. Adjusted for GWP, the total human contribution to Earth's overall greenhouse effect is about 0.28%.



Anthropogenic (man-made) carbon dioxide (CO2) comprises about 0.117% of this total, and man-made sources of other gases ( methane, nitrous oxide (NOX), other misc. gases) contributes another 0.163% .

Approximately 99.72% of the "greenhouse effect" is due to natural causes -- mostly water vapor and traces of other gases, which we can do nothing at all about. Eliminating human activity altogether would have little impact on climate change.


4. If global warming is caused by CO2 in the atmosphere then does CO2 also cause increased sun activity too?

This chart adapted after Nigel Calder (6) illustrates that variations in sun activity are generally proportional to both variations in atmospheric CO2 and atmospheric temperature.


Reference: The Carbon Dioxide Thermometer and the Cause of Global Warming; Nigel Calder,-- Presented at a SPRU (Science and Technology Policy Research) seminar, University of Sussex, Brighton, England, October 6, 1998. Solar wind is used here as a measure of sun intensity.


Put another way, rising Earth temperatures and increasing CO2 may be "effects" and our own sun the "cause".
Member Since: 17 augustus 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 730
641. PurpleDrank 6:58 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
FUN FACTS about CARBON DIOXIDE

* Of the 186 billion tons of carbon from CO2 that enter earth's atmosphere each year from all sources, only 6 billion tons are from human activity. Approximately 90 billion tons come from biologic activity in earth's oceans and another 90 billion tons from such sources as volcanoes and decaying land plants.

* At 380 parts per million CO2 is a minor constituent of earth's atmosphere-- less than 4/100ths of 1% of all gases present.


NOTE: Carbon Dioxide is such a small component of Earth's atmosphere (368 ppmv) that the "slice" it represents in this chart is really only a "line" about 1/2 as thick as the line shown.

Compared to former geologic times, earth's current atmosphere is CO2- impoverished.


Late Carboniferous to Early Permian time (315 mya -- 270 mya) is the only time period in the last 600 million years when both atmospheric CO2 and temperatures were as low as they are today (Quaternary Period ).


* CO2 is odorless, colorless, and tasteless. Plants absorb CO2 and emit oxygen as a waste product. Humans and animals breathe oxygen and emit CO2 as a waste product. Carbon dioxide is a nutrient, not a pollutant, and all life-- plants and animals alike-- benefit from more of it. All life on earth is carbon-based and CO2 is an essential ingredient. When plant-growers want to stimulate plant growth, they introduce more carbon dioxide.

* CO2 that goes into the atmosphere does not stay there but is continually recycled by terrestrial plant life and earth's oceans-- the great retirement home for most terrestrial carbon dioxide.



If we are in a global warming crisis today, even the most aggressive and costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would have a negligible effect on global climate!
Member Since: 17 augustus 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 730
642. Neapolitan 7:05 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting PurpleDrank:
FUN FACTS about CARBON DIOXIDE

* Of the 186 billion tons of carbon from CO2 that enter earth's atmosphere each year from all sources, only 6 billion tons are from human activity. Approximately 90 billion tons come from biologic activity in earth's oceans and another 90 billion tons from such sources as volcanoes and decaying land plants.

* At 380 parts per million CO2 is a minor constituent of earth's atmosphere-- less than 4/100ths of 1% of all gases present.


NOTE: Carbon Dioxide is such a small component of Earth's atmosphere (368 ppmv) that the "slice" it represents in this chart is really only a "line" about 1/2 as thick as the line shown.

Compared to former geologic times, earth's current atmosphere is CO2- impoverished.


Late Carboniferous to Early Permian time (315 mya -- 270 mya) is the only time period in the last 600 million years when both atmospheric CO2 and temperatures were as low as they are today (Quaternary Period ).


* CO2 is odorless, colorless, and tasteless. Plants absorb CO2 and emit oxygen as a waste product. Humans and animals breathe oxygen and emit CO2 as a waste product. Carbon dioxide is a nutrient, not a pollutant, and all life-- plants and animals alike-- benefit from more of it. All life on earth is carbon-based and CO2 is an essential ingredient. When plant-growers want to stimulate plant growth, they introduce more carbon dioxide.

* CO2 that goes into the atmosphere does not stay there but is continually recycled by terrestrial plant life and earth's oceans-- the great retirement home for most terrestrial carbon dioxide.



If we are in a global warming crisis today, even the most aggressive and costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would have a negligible effect on global climate!

Not sure where your "data" is coming from. China alone pumps more than billion tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere from the burning of fossil fuels each year. And since a basic and well-known fact is wildly misstated in your very first sentence, the rest of the comment simply can't be trusted.

(Seriously, those Geocraft graphs you've posted have been debunked so many times that they belong in the main exhibit room at the Denialist Hall of Fame. ;-) In lieu of them, can you please post some charts and graphs drawing on actual scientific data?)
Member Since: 8 november 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11153
643. PurpleDrank 7:06 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
The case for a "greenhouse problem" is made by environmentalists, news anchormen , and special interests who make inaccurate and misleading statements about global warming and climate change. Even though people may be skeptical of such rhetoric initially, after awhile people start believing it must be true because we hear it so often.



"We have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we may have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest."


Stephen Schneider (leading advocate of the global warming theory)
(in interview for Discover magazine, Oct 1989)


"In the United States...we have to first convince the American People and the Congress that the climate problem is real."


former President Bill Clinton in a 1997 address to the United Nations



"Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous (global warming) is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are..."


former Vice President Al Gore
(now, chairman and co-founder of Generation Investment Management--
a London-based business that sells carbon credits)
(in interview with Grist Magazine May 9, 2006, concerning his book, An Inconvenient Truth)


"In the long run, the replacement of the precise and disciplined language of science by the misleading language of litigation and advocacy may be one of the more important sources of damage to society incurred in the current debate over global warming."


Dr. Richard S. Lindzen
(leading climate and atmospheric science expert- MIT)



"Researchers pound the global-warming drum because they know there is politics and, therefore, money behind it. . . I've been critical of global warming and am persona non grata."


Dr. William Gray
(Professor of Atmospheric Sciences at Colorado State University, Fort Collins, Colorado and leading expert of hurricane prediction )
(in an interview for the Denver Rocky Mountain News, November 28, 1999)



"Scientists who want to attract attention to themselves, who want to attract great funding to themselves, have to (find a) way to scare the public . . . and this you can achieve only by making things bigger and more dangerous than they really are."


Petr Chylek
(Professor of Physics and Atmospheric Science, Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia)
Commenting on reports by other researchers that Greenland's glaciers are melting.
(Halifax Chronicle-Herald, August 22, 2001) (8)


"Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing -- in terms of economic policy and environmental policy."


Tim Wirth , while U.S. Senator, Colorado.
After a short stint as United Nations Under-Secretary for Global Affairs (4)
he now serves as President, U.N. Foundation, created by Ted Turner and his $1 billion "gift"


"No matter if the science is all phony, there are collateral environmental benefits.... Climate change [provides] the greatest chance to bring about justice and equality in the world."


Christine Stewart, former Minister of the Environment of Canada
quote from the Calgary Herald, 1999


Member Since: 17 augustus 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 730
644. PurpleDrank 7:09 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting Neapolitan:

Not sure where your "data" is coming from. China alone puts nearly 10 billion tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere from the burning of fossil fuels. And since a basic and well-known fact is wildly misstated in your very first sentence, the rest of the comment simply can't be trusted.

(Seriously, those Geocraft graphs you've posted have been debunked so many times that they belong in the main exhibit room at the Denialist Hall of Fame. ;-) In lieu of them, can you please post some charts and graphs drawing on actual scientific data?)


You have the right to deny and pick and choose what you believe.

Like your Doomsday clock journalists.
Member Since: 17 augustus 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 730
645. PurpleDrank 7:13 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
References

(1) A scientific Discussion of Climate Change, Sallie Baliunas, Ph.D., Harvard- Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and Willie Soon, Ph.D., Harvard- Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.

(2) The Effects of Proposals for Greenhouse Gas Emission Reduction; Testimony of Dr. Patrick J. Michaels, Professor of Environmental Sciences, University of Virginia, before the Subcommittee on Energy and Environment of the Committee on Science, United States House of Representatives

(3) Statement Concerning Global Warming-- Presented to the Senate Committee on Environmental and Public Works, June 10, 1997, by Dr. Richard S. Lindzen, Massachusetts Institute of Technology

(4) Excerpts from,"Our Global Future: Climate Change", Remarks by Under Secretary for Global affairs, T. Wirth, 15 September 1997. Site maintained by The Globe - Climate Change Campaign

(5) Testimony of John R. Christy to the Committee on Environmental and Public Works, Department of Atmospheric Science and Earth System Science Laboratory, University of Alabama in Huntsville, July 10, 1997.

(6) The Carbon Dioxide Thermometer and the Cause of Global Warming; Nigel Calder,-- Presented at a seminar SPRU (Science and Technology Policy Research), University of Sussex, Brighton, England, October 6, 1998.

(7) Variation in cosmic ray flux and global cloud coverage: a missing link in solar-climate relationships; H. Svensmark and E. Friis-Christiansen, Journal of Atmospheric and Solar- Terrestrial Physics, vol. 59, pp. 1225 - 1232 (1997).

(8) First International Conference on Global Warming and the Next Ice Age; Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, sponsored by the Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society and the American Meteorological Society, August 21-24, 2001.

(9) Ice Core Studies Prove CO2 Is Not the Powerful Climate Driver Climate Alarmists Make It Out to Be; CO2 Science;
Volume 6, Number 26: 25 June 2003; http://www.co2science.org/articles/V6/N26/EDIT.php







Additional Reading

Understanding Common Climate Claims: Dr. Richard S. Lindzen; Draft paper to appear in the Proceedings of the 2005 Erice Meeting of the World Federation of Scientists on Global Emergencies.

Geological Constraints on Global Climate Variability: Dr. Lee C. Gerhard-- A variety of natural climate drivers constantly change our climate. A slide format presentation. 8.5 MB.

Thoughts of Global Warming: "The bottom line is that climatic change is a given. It is inescapable, it happens. There is no reason to be very concerned about it or spend bazillions of dollars to try and even things out.

NOAA Paleoclimatology: An educational trip through earths distant and recent past. Also contains useful information and illustrations relating to the causes of climate change.

Cracking the Ice Age: From the PBS website-- NOVA online presents a brief tour of the causes of global warming.

Little Ice Age (Solar Influence - Temperature): From the online magazine, "CO2 Science."

Solar Variability and Climate Change: by Willie Soon, January 10, 2000

Earth's Fidgeting Climate: NASA Science News "It may surprise many people that science cannot deliver an unqualified, unanimous answer about something as important as climate change"
Member Since: 17 augustus 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 730
646. cyclonebuster 7:18 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting PurpleDrank:
FUN FACTS about CARBON DIOXIDE

* Of the 186 billion tons of carbon from CO2 that enter earth's atmosphere each year from all sources, only 6 billion tons are from human activity. Approximately 90 billion tons come from biologic activity in earth's oceans and another 90 billion tons from such sources as volcanoes and decaying land plants.

* At 380 parts per million CO2 is a minor constituent of earth's atmosphere-- less than 4/100ths of 1% of all gases present.


NOTE: Carbon Dioxide is such a small component of Earth's atmosphere (368 ppmv) that the "slice" it represents in this chart is really only a "line" about 1/2 as thick as the line shown.

Compared to former geologic times, earth's current atmosphere is CO2- impoverished.


Late Carboniferous to Early Permian time (315 mya -- 270 mya) is the only time period in the last 600 million years when both atmospheric CO2 and temperatures were as low as they are today (Quaternary Period ).


* CO2 is odorless, colorless, and tasteless. Plants absorb CO2 and emit oxygen as a waste product. Humans and animals breathe oxygen and emit CO2 as a waste product. Carbon dioxide is a nutrient, not a pollutant, and all life-- plants and animals alike-- benefit from more of it. All life on earth is carbon-based and CO2 is an essential ingredient. When plant-growers want to stimulate plant growth, they introduce more carbon dioxide.

* CO2 that goes into the atmosphere does not stay there but is continually recycled by terrestrial plant life and earth's oceans-- the great retirement home for most terrestrial carbon dioxide.



If we are in a global warming crisis today, even the most aggressive and costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would have a negligible effect on global climate!



"If we are in a global warming crisis today, even the most aggressive and costly proposals for limiting industrial carbon dioxide emissions would have a negligible effect on global climate!"


My idea changes it back in ten years. I'll bet one whopper one large fry and one chocolate milk shake. Anyone dare to computer model it? Are you afraid I am right and you are wrong?
Member Since: 2 januari 2006 Posts: 127 Comments: 18774
647. PurpleDrank 7:20 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
actual scientific data

(pause to reflect)

ok, my moment of Zen is over

25+ Trillion Miles to the nearest solar system...better pack a few more peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for the journey.

Member Since: 17 augustus 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 730
648. Neapolitan 7:21 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
Quoting PurpleDrank:


You have the right to deny and pick and choose what you believe.

Like your Doomsday clock journalists.

As a very wise man once said, you have the right to your own opinions, but you don't have the right to your own facts. Bottom line: if you can't post real science to back up your claims, why bother filling up the blog with pointlessly long cut-and-pasted rants that show a complete disregard for science, logic, and truth?
Member Since: 8 november 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11153
649. Neapolitan 7:29 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
A really great question is this: just how much trouble are Rupert Murdoch and the fine "journalists" at Fox "News" going to be in now that it appears that the manufactured and disproved "climategate" "scandal" was probably cooked up by Murdoch's people, with the stolen emails likely stolen by one or more News Corp. employees?

Whoopsie!
Member Since: 8 november 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11153
650. PurpleDrank 7:31 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
I'd like to see some scientific data on anything actual from China.

I do not believe anyone knows exactly how much CO2 china emits, let alone all countries, from one year to the other.

Prove me wrong and show us the details of china's fossil fuel production, emissions, etc., Neapolitan. Please.

While you're at it, I'd like to know Putin's luggage combination and who rolls Fidel's cigars.

Member Since: 17 augustus 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 730
651. nymore 7:34 PM GMT op 24 juli 2011    
NEAPOLITAN - What is your source for 500 volcanic eruptions and 10 billion tonnes co2 China. I call bs doing the math is does not work
Member Since: 6 juli 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 2048

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About RickyRood
I'm a professor at U Michigan and lead a course on climate change problem solving. These articles include ideas from the course. And no tuition!

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