Dr. Jeff Masters' WunderBlog

Not a trace of Don; What's next?
Posted by: Dr. Jeff Masters, 7:41 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011 +33
Don is dead

Tropical Storm Don, the fourth named storm of the 2011 season, made landfall near Baffin Bay, Texas yesterday evening around 10pm CDT in less-than-grand fashion. The storm was looking very weak for the 24 hours before landfall, but fizzled rapidly after landfall, and by early Saturday morning, there was barely a trace of the storm to show that it even existed in the first place.

NHC Hurricane Specialist Eric Blake probably said it best in this mornings 5am EDT discussion on the storm:

THE DON IS DEAD. THE CYCLONE LITERALLY EVAPORATED OVER TEXAS ABOUT
AS FAST AS I HAVE EVER SEEN WITHOUT MOUNTAINS INVOLVED. DON HAS NO
CONVECTION...MEAGER RAINFALL...AND ONLY A SLIGHT SIGNATURE IN
SURFACE OBSERVATIONS AND RADAR DATA. THEREFORE...THIS IS THE LAST
ADVISORY ON THIS SYSTEM.


Figure 1. Total precipitation accumulation for the storm, estimated by radar.

The heaviest rainfall was falling south of the storm's center yesterday, so it wasn't surprising that Brownsville saw the most rain, 0.63 inches. KBRO also recorded 18 mph wind gusts. But to the north of the center, where many of the media were located, not a drop of rain fell. Corpus Christi saw zero inches of rain, but did record gale-force wind gusts (39 mph). Harlingen, near Baffin Bay, and close to where the center made landfall, saw 0.20 inches of rain and 18 mph wind gusts. This storm did very, very little to relieve any drought conditions in Southern Texas. And so it continues.

What's next: Invest 91L continues to impress

Invest 91L, which is located near 12°N 48°W in the central Atlantic, continues to impress today, and has shown signs of more organization over the past 24 hours. 91L will probably develop into a tropical cyclone before it reaches the Lesser Antilles, so residents of these islands should remain watchful and prepared. Satellite loops show not only organized thunderstorm activity, but also the makings of a surface circulation. Something this wave has working against it right now is dry air—there's a large mass of Saharan air on the north and east sides of the system, which could at least prevent significant intensification. Also, University of Wisconsin CIMSS analysis shows some strong wind shear (30-40 knots) to the north of the wave. However, I don't expect this to prevent development of the wave. Wind shear out ahead of the system is relatively low (5-15 knots). Moisture is plenty high within the system, and sea surface temperatures are warm and toasty (28°C+) and will only get warmer as 91L moves west into the Caribbean.


Figure 2. Infrared satellite of invest 91L taken at 1:15pm EDT today.

Forecast for 91L
Most of the reliable forecast models (GFS, CMC, FIM, and the ECMWF) have come to agree that 91L will develop, however, they differ on how long-lived that will be. Some of the models are suggesting it will be a short-lived tropical cyclone, not making it out of the Caribbean alive, and some suggest that it will hold together and intensify as it moves north of the Caribbean islands. The forecast track for the system will most likely be to the northwest through the Caribbean, at which point it will take a northeast turn near the Bahamas, never reaching the U.S. coast. HWRF agrees with this track (and also brings the system to category 2 strength by August 3rd). However, there is still some uncertainty that the system could track west, south of the Caribbean islands, and potentially into the Gulf of Mexico. However, none of the models that suggest this solution actually show that the wave will be a tropical cyclone at that point.

The National Hurricane Center is giving this wave an 80% chance of developing into at least Tropical Depression Five over the next 48 hours. Chances are we will see Emily out of this system. A Hurricane Hunter mission is scheduled for tomorrow at 2pm EDT, but I wouldn't be totally surprised to see them call this system this evening, given the threat to the Lesser Antilles.

Watching a northwest Caribbean disturbance

A broad area of disturbed weather is producing some heavy thunderstorms in the northwest Caribbean, southeast of the Yucatan Peninsula. Little to no low-level circulation exists with this feature, and none of the models are picking up on it. The Hurricane Center has "blobbed" this item (as I like to say) with a "near 0%" chance of developing over the next 48 hours. This disturbance could cause major flooding in the region given the amount of thunderstorm activity, and predictability for systems like this (potential Bay of Cempeche tropical cyclones) is very low. Models have a short lead time on development, and they spin up very fast once they enter the Bay of Campeche given the favorable topography of the land surrounding it. The difference between this system, though, and one like Arlene, is that there is very, very little low level circulation already present. Pre-Arlene was a bit more organized before it crossed the Yucatan, and so it's hard to imagine that this disturbance will be able to hold together, should it get that far.

If 91L develops, I'll be back tomorrow with a post.

Angela
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301. Gorty 9:12 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Joe B says it could be a cat 2 or 3 by the time it reaches PR. And he said that by that time, the day will be Tuesday.
Member Since: 8 november 2008 Posts: 11 Comments: 1058
302. JupiterFL 9:12 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Hurricanes101:
all of these polls make me sick

91L could pose a threat to the Islands and all we see is talk about the US. It happens all the time and makes me sick every single time.


Every single time?
Member Since: 10 augustus 2005 Posts: 0 Comments: 2146
303. stormpetrol 9:12 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Orcasystems:
I need some help from people who have a more diplomatic approach to things then I do. I need
someone to help form a response to people who say a systems is a FISH. I understand that in their
mind, that people who are not from the CONUS, are not really human, therefore they don't really
count and the system can be called a FISH.

I really have a problem with that line of thinking, I personally think anyone who calls a system a FISH because it only endangers "non" US citizens, or Sailors... is a moron and shouldn't actually be allowed to breed, but that's only a personal opinion...

What I need is a Diplomatic way to tell someone they are an absolute Moron... suggestions would be appreciated.


Though I'm admittingly Pro-American, I would certainly shake your hand on that, I think they speak for themselves though, Like Abe Lincoln said, "better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" would really be the only advice I have for such narrow mindedness!
Member Since: 29 april 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 6394
304. tiggeriffic 9:13 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Orcasystems:
I need some help from people who have a more diplomatic approach to things then I do. I need
someone to help form a response to people who say a systems is a FISH. I understand that in their
mind, that people who are not from the CONUS, are not really human, therefore they don't really
count and the system can be called a FISH.

I really have a problem with that line of thinking, I personally think anyone who calls a system a FISH because it only endangers "non" US citizens, or Sailors... is a moron and shouldn't actually be allowed to breed, but that's only a personal opinion...

What I need is a Diplomatic way to tell someone they are an absolute Moron... suggestions would be appreciated.


I think you diplomatically hit the nail on the head... no such thing as a "FISH" storm...it will affect someone somewhere somehow, either by damage to land or damage to shipping or fishing industry
Member Since: 16 september 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 3592
305. sunlinepr 9:13 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Mikla:
Some models:


If it keeps the actual trend of the last 12 hrs. it will pass N of the islands...
Member Since: 2 augustus 2010 Posts: 19 Comments: 8439
306. IceCoast 9:13 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
This could be nasty for Okinawa, and whoever else has to deal with Muifa. A long read but very informative.

REMARKS: 302100Z POSITION NEAR 16.8N 132.4E. SUPER TYPHOON (STY) 11W (MUIFA), LOCATED APPROXIMATELY 640 NM SOUTH-SOUTHEAST OF KADENA AIR BASE, JAPAN, HAS TRACKED NORTHWESTWARD AT 04 KNOTS OVER THE PAST SIX HOURS. STY MUIFA IS APPROACHING THE END OF A 12 HOUR EPISODE OF RAPID INTENSIFICATION. ANIMATED INFRARED SATELLITE IMAGERY SHOWS AN IMPECCABLY ORGANIZED SYSTEM WITH BEAUTIFUL SYMMETRY AND A TIGHT PINHOLE 11 NM EYE. A 301718Z AMSRE IMAGE PROVIDES AN EXCELLENT DEPICTION OF THE INTENSITY AND SYMMETRY IN THE EYEWALL. IT ALSO SHOWS NO SIGN OF A SECONDARY, OUTER EYEWALL FORMING, WHICH WOULD PROVIDE A BRAKING MECHANISM TO THE INTENSIFICATION RATE. EYE TEMPERATURES HAVE MOVED INTO POSITIVE TERRITORY, RESULTING IN DVORAK ESTIMATES OF 7.0 (140 KNOTS) FROM RJTD AND KNES AND 6.0 (90) KNOTS FROM RJTD. THE SPECTACULAR INTENSIFICATION SINCE 300000Z WAS FACILITATED BY THE PILING ON OF DUAL OUTFLOW CHANNELS TO AN ALREADY WELL-DEVELOPED EQUATORWARD OUTFLOW, WHICH HAD BEEN PRESENT SINCE THE GENITIVE STAGES. UNTIL YESTERDAY, SUBSIDENCE ASSOCIATED WITH THE TROPICAL UPPER TROPOSPHERIC TROUGH (TUTT) HAD BEEN IMPEDING POLEWARD OUTFLOW, BUT YESTERDAY, IMPINGEMENT OVER THE NORTHEAST QUADRANT EASED. THEN NEAR 300000Z, A POLEWARD OUTFLOW CHANNEL INTO A TUTT CELL OPENED UP WHILE ANOTHER CHANNEL DEVELOPED TO THE EAST, INTO THE EQUATORWARD SIDE OF THE TUTT. STY 11W NOW HAS A SINGULAR EXHAUST POINT ABOVE THE LOW LEVEL CIRCULATION CENTER AND EXCELLENT OUTFLOW IN ALL QUADRANTS. VERTICAL WIND SHEAR IS NO MORE THAN 5 KNOTS. THE TUTT CELL HAS RETROGRADED WESTWARD AND IS NOW NEAR TAIWAN AND OPENING ON THE STORM, WHICH SHOULD CUT OFF THE POLEWARD OUTFLOW CHANNEL AND BRING A RETURN TO A SLOWER, MORE STEADY RATE OF INTENSIFICATION. STY 11W IS ON A POLEWARD TRACK IN A VERY WEAK STEERING ENVIRONMENT. A BROAD WEAKNESS IN THE SUBTROPICAL RIDGE EXISTS BETWEEN THE SEASONAL ANTICYCLONE OVER EASTERN CHINA AND THE BONIN HIGH, WHICH HAS BEEN DISPLACED ALL THE WAY TO THE DATELINE. A WEAK PUSH IS BEING PROVIDED ON THE SOUTHEAST QUADRANT BY AN ANTICYCLONE ASSOCIATED WITH THE NEAR EQUATORIAL RIDGE. AS STY 11W CLEARS THE INFLUENCE OF THE ANTICYCLONE, IT WILL BEGIN TO TRACK EAST OF NORTH, WHICH WILL RESULT IN SLOW, ERRATIC MOVEMENT ALONG A NET NORTHEASTWARD TRACK THROUGH TAU 42. AT THAT POINT (WHICH WILL COME NEAR THE 20TH LATITUDE), THE RETROGRADING BONIN HIGH WILL COME CLOSE ENOUGH TO THE STORM TO BECOME THE STEERING FORCE, WHICH WILL DRIVE THE SYSTEM WESTWARD. THE SLOW RETROGRADE OF THE BONIN HIGH WILL RESULT IN A GRADUAL TURN TO THE WEST. WITH EACH SUCCESSIVE MODEL RUN, GUIDANCE ZEROS IN ON A TRACK CLOSE TO OKINAWA. THE INTENSITY TREND IS EXPECTED TO BE A SLOW AND STEADY UP TO THE POINT OF THE WESTWARD TURN, AND THEN A SLOW DECLINE THEREAFTER. THE DECLINE IS EXPECTED TO BE A FUNCTION OF DECREASING OCEAN HEAT CONTENT RATHER THAN INCREASED VERTICAL WIND SHEAR, WHICH IS EXPECTED TO REMAIN BELOW 20 KNOTS THROUGH THE DURATION OF THE FORECAST. ALTHOUGH SEA SURFACE TEMPERATURES REMAIN HIGH, THE DEPTH OF THE 26 DEGREE ISOTHERM DECREASES BY NEARLY 50 PER CENT NORTH OF 20 DEGREES NORTH LATITUDE. THE JTWC FORECAST TRACK STAYS WITH BOTH CONSENSUS AND ECMWF THROUGH TAU 72, AS THEY ARE IN NEARLY EXACT AGREEMENT. AFTER TAU 72, THE TWO DIVERGE, WITH THE ECMWF VORTEX TRACKER STEERING THE STORM SOUTH OF OKINAWA, WHILE CONSENSUS STRIKES THE NORTHERN TIP OF OKINAWA. CONSENSUS IS BEING PULLED POLEWARD BY GFDN AND GFS, WHICH ARE ALREADY SHOWING THEY ARE NOT HANDLING THE SYSTEM WELL. THEREFORE THE TRACK FORECAST AFTER TAU 72 WILL BE SOUTH OF CONSENSUS. REGARDLESS OF THE EXACT TRACK, THE SCENARIO DOES NOT BODE WELL FOR OKINAWA. THERE REMAINS CONSIDERABLE DISPARITY IN INTENSITY GUIDANCE AFTER TAU 72, WITH DYNAMIC AIDS GENERALLY SHOWING SUPER TYPHOON INTENSITIES THROUGH THE DURATION OF THE FORECAST, AND STATISTICAL-DYNAMICAL MODELS (PARTICULARLY STIPS 11) INDICATING THAT THE SYSTEM HAS ALREADY PEAKED AND SHOULD BEGIN TO WEAKEN. GIVEN THE CURRENT STATE OF ORGANIZATION OF STY 11W, STIPS GUIDANCE WILL BE DISMISSED OVER THE NEAR TERM, BUT OVER THE MEDIUM AND LONG TERM, THEIR ABILITY TO FACTOR OCEAN HEAT CONTENT INTO THE INTENSITY TREND IS USED AS A BASIS FOR FORECASTING A DE-INTENSIFICATION TREND AFTER TAU 48. MAXIMUM SIGNIFICANT WAVE HEIGHT AT 301800Z IS 40 FEET. NEXT WARNINGS AT 310300Z, 310900Z, 311500Z AND 312100Z. REFER TO TROPICAL STORM 10W (NOCK-TEN) WARNINGS (WTPN31 PGTW) FOR SIX-HOURLY UPDATES.//
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307. Gorty 9:13 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting tropicfreak:


I think it already has its act together, it doesn't look disorganized to me.



Maybe your eye is just more trained than mine then haha.

The form/structure looks too ugly to be a TS. Maybe it could be a TD.
Member Since: 8 november 2008 Posts: 11 Comments: 1058
308. CanesfanatUT 9:14 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting stormwatcherCI:
Unnecessary.


If you knew what I was talking about, you'd agree. It was a troll.
Member Since: 3 september 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 456
309. TomTaylor 9:14 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Weather456:
Well we are aware of 91L here in Saint Kitts. Just stopping by to say hello.
Woah!

Just read back on the last blog. Hope you stick around 456
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310. breeezee 9:15 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
the one coming off the african coast will be the next invest if not something more
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311. tropicfreak 9:15 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Gorty:


Maybe your eye is just more trained than mine then haha.

The form/structure looks too ugly to be a TS. Maybe it could be a TD.


Yeah, it moreso has the looks of a TD than a TS.
Member Since: 2 september 2006 Posts: 110 Comments: 6566
312. RachelP 9:15 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Orcasystems:
I need some help from people who have a more diplomatic approach to things then I do. I need
someone to help form a response to people who say a systems is a FISH. I understand that in their
mind, that people who are not from the CONUS, are not really human, therefore they don't really
count and the system can be called a FISH.

I really have a problem with that line of thinking, I personally think anyone who calls a system a FISH because it only endangers "non" US citizens, or Sailors... is a moron and shouldn't actually be allowed to breed, but that's only a personal opinion...

What I need is a Diplomatic way to tell someone they are an absolute Moron... suggestions would be appreciated.


Diplomacy is highly overrated. They ARE just morons. Back to my 7 year lurker status now. That is all.
Member Since: 2 oktober 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 2
313. FrankZapper 9:16 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting stormpetrol:


Though I'm admittingly Pro-American, I would certainly shake your hand on that, I think they speak for themselves though, Like Abe Lincoln said, "better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt" would really the only advice I have for such narrow mindedness!
Are you calling Honest Abe a closet fishcaster?
Member Since: 26 mei 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1193
314. stormwatcherCI 9:16 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting CanesfanatUT:


If you knew what I was talking about, you'd agree. It was a troll.
I am only referring to your wording.
Member Since: 9 oktober 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 8038
315. tiggeriffic 9:17 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Gorty:


Maybe your eye is just more trained than mine then haha.

The form/structure looks too ugly to be a TS. Maybe it could be a TD.


I do not have a trained eye but do understand that even if the outside of a large area of disturbed weather can look ragged, the inner core can be consolidating...the outter area could actually be keeping dry air and wind sheer from affecting the center core....but that is by all means a very laimans point of view
Member Since: 16 september 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 3592
316. Neapolitan 9:18 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Orcasystems:
I need some help from people who have a more diplomatic approach to things then I do. I need
someone to help form a response to people who say a systems is a FISH. I understand that in their
mind, that people who are not from the CONUS, are not really human, therefore they don't really
count and the system can be called a FISH.

I really have a problem with that line of thinking, I personally think anyone who calls a system a FISH because it only endangers "non" US citizens, or Sailors... is a moron and shouldn't actually be allowed to breed, but that's only a personal opinion...

What I need is a Diplomatic way to tell someone they are an absolute Moron... suggestions would be appreciated.

For the second time in three days, you and I agree. ;-)

Here's my answer (posted in the previous blog):

Fish Storm
Member Since: 8 november 2009 Posts: 4 Comments: 11142
317. weatherxtreme 9:18 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
I think 91L looks more organized and together this afternoon than this morning IMO.
Member Since: 26 juni 2010 Posts: 0 Comments: 231
318. RJT185 9:19 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Double yoi. The maturity level is simply outstanding.

Lurking becomes more and more painful with every passing Hurricane season.
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319. HurricaneSwirl 9:19 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Hurricanes101:
all of these polls make me sick

91L could pose a threat to the Islands and all we see is talk about the US. It happens all the time and makes me sick every single time.


Yeah. Although I voted I thought it would recurve, it obviously can't be a fish storm because of the people on those islands. There needs to be more talk about the effects on the islands IMO as that is more imminent.
Member Since: 7 juli 2008 Posts: 2 Comments: 3237
320. breeezee 9:20 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
MESOCYCLONE very interesting
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321. stormpetrol 9:20 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting FrankZapper:
Are you calling Honest Abe a closet fishcaster?


Doesn't really matter if its in the closet or not " a rose by any other name is still a rose" case closed!
Member Since: 29 april 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 6394
322. TropicalAnalystwx13 9:20 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
I'm still sticking to my prediction that 91L will be declared at 5PM tomorrow afternoon. However, it wouldn't surprise me if it was declared earlier than that.
Member Since: 6 juli 2010 Posts: 89 Comments: 25142
323. Torgen 9:20 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
I thought that a system could be designated a tropical depression without a closed low level circulation, but upon reading the NHC glossary of terms it seems I am wrong:

Tropical Depression:
A tropical cyclone in which the maximum sustained surface wind speed (using the U.S. 1-minute average) is 33 kt (38 mph or 62 km/hr) or less.


Tropical Cyclone:
A warm-core non-frontal synoptic-scale cyclone, originating over tropical or subtropical waters, with organized deep convection and a closed surface wind circulation about a well-defined center...


So, the calls for the NHC to declare TD#5 are premature, aren't they?
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324. tiggeriffic 9:21 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Would love to know what happened to the "GROWN UPS" that were on here in the past...(tho some are still here)...the juvenile antics are becoming more prevelant and monotnous
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325. JRRP 9:21 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    



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326. Hurricanejer95 9:21 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Seems like Muifa is taking an aim on Shanghai, parts of it is now in the DOOM cone
Member Since: 30 augustus 2008 Posts: 1 Comments: 224
328. DVG 9:23 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
I don't believe calling a storm " fish " because it doesn't hit the USA is demeaning to people who are affected elsewhere. How can one not sympathize with those who suffer? It is simply a game of numbers. There are larger metropolitan areas on the US mainland causing a larger number of people to suffer.
There are probably a larger number members here who participate that live in the lower 48. It just seems that as a group, they are merely commenting on the unfolding scenerios as they develope.

When someone calls a storm a "fish", I just take it simply as meaning the continental USA is going to be spared. It does not have any more or less meaning than that.

If we called a storm an island bopping fish storm, would that make anyone feel better? If a storm were to miss all the islands, should I take umbridge because I was less fortunate?

A tropical cyclone is like a terminator. It has no feelings. It doesn't care.

I personally find weather interesting. Sometimes it's fun. Sometimes it's not.
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329. TropicalAnalystwx13 9:23 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Torgen:
I thought that a system could be designated a tropical depression without a closed low level circulation, but upon reading the NHC glossary of terms it seems I am wrong:

Tropical Depression:
A tropical cyclone in which the maximum sustained surface wind speed (using the U.S. 1-minute average) is 33 kt (38 mph or 62 km/hr) or less.


Tropical Cyclone:
A warm-core non-frontal synoptic-scale cyclone, originating over tropical or subtropical waters, with organized deep convection and a closed surface wind circulation about a well-defined center...


So, the calls for the NHC to declare TD#5 are premature, aren't they?


No. It is likely that 91L has a low-level, well-defined, closed circulation somewhere in that convection. ASCAT and OSCAT from the other night confirmed this.
Member Since: 6 juli 2010 Posts: 89 Comments: 25142
331. Hurricanes101 9:24 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting P451:


The way I see it is that it is so early in the game that...





exactly how it should be, but it would be nice to find out from those in the Islands what is going on there, I know they are monitoring it, but that should be the focus

Also checking ships and buoy data to see what this system is doing now, along with satellite

Not talking about the models that flip flop every 5 secons and the POSSIBLE impact on the US
Member Since: 10 maart 2010 Posts: 1 Comments: 6902
332. HurrMichaelOrl 9:24 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting HurricaneSwirl:


It is too far out, but my gut feeling is going with A.


Agreed. These usually (almost always before Florida at least) do. It still bears watching though until two to three consecutive model runs show a recurve consensus.
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333. HarryMc 9:25 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
91L is not far from buoy 41041. It's apparently getting its mojo together


Station 41041
NDBC
Location: 14.175N 45.998W
Conditions as of:
Sat, 30 Jul 2011 19:50:00 UTC
Winds: ESE (110°) at 19.4 kt gusting to 23.3 kt
Significant Wave Height: 10.5 ft
Dominant Wave Period: 9 sec
Atmospheric Pressure: 29.85 in and falling
Air Temperature: 79.9 F
Dew Point: 74.8 F
Water Temperature: 81.3 F
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334. ssmate 9:26 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
I've been a paying member at WU for years and I just noticed that I'm getting ads on the page. Did they do away with the 'no ads' part of the membership?
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335. Cotillion 9:26 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
I think some of the comments on fish storms are just to wind others up as opposed to a genuine belief that only Americans matter.

For some, it's maybe just a narrow viewpoint that is given by experience: people have been hit so much that they only wanna know if it's coming their way. If it isn't, it's a sigh of relief and it stops there as opposed to then wondering who else it may impact.

Of course, a few are jingoists.

There are Americans on the islands, too. Puerto Rico and one half of the Virgin Islands. Tourists, businessmen, etc as well.

Beyond that, there's shipping as well as impacting on trade that ordinary Americans benefit from: banana trade, for example. Particularly in this globalised world we live in, everything is interconnected. Any impacts are passed on. Libya's a good example. The oil they produce is typically not used by the US, but it drives the price up when then impacts upon the price at the pump. That may well be by conflict, so it's a bit of a different scenario, but hurricane impacts work the same way, however small.

About as diplomatic as I can get it.
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336. WeatherfanPR 9:28 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
ok this what I think related to the possible track of 91L(Emily). I think at this time that the track could bring "Emily" very close or across the British Virgin Islands so Puerto Rico would escape the brunt of this System.
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337. IceCoast 9:28 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Even if this isn't technically isn't a TD or TS, wouldn't it still be wise to issue advisories on it anyways before Recon. If they wait that long, the system will be closing on on the islands leaving some little time to prepare. There seems to be no doubt this will develop, so why not give people fair warning later tonight? Just my two cents, the NHC is awesome in what they do so got to trust them.
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338. alcomat 9:28 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Was just wondering, why don didnt intensify over the gom, when water temps were very warm, and there was no wind shear until he got close to the texas coast ? he had about 700 miles of water,before he got to the coast ! Was it because the system was slightly elongated, and moving at 16 mph ? just curious....thanks
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339. stormwatcherCI 9:28 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting P451:


The way I see it is that it is so early in the game that...



Excellent and true.
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340. 7544 9:29 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting JRRP:





looking at those it looks like the gfdl path
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341. thebandman 9:29 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Here we go again. If a storm isn't aiming right at the US then the only comments are, it's a fish storm. I thought the purpose of the blog was to learn and discuss tropical storms.
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342. BVI 9:30 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting WeatherfanPR:
ok this what I think related to the possible track of 91L(Emily). I think at this time that the track could bring "Emily" very close or across the British Virgin Islands so Puerto Rico would escape the brunt of this System.


Hoping you are wrong but watching closely here in Tortola
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343. Jedkins01 9:30 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Imagine the nightmare of a thunderstorm if each raindrop was replaced with a high velocity bullet.

Lightning can be nightmare around here though in reality. Come to West Central Florida and you might just wet your pants from the lighting we can get here.
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344. RJT185 9:31 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting alcomat:
Was just wondering, why don didnt intensify over the gom, when water temps were very warm, and there was no wind shear until he got close to the texas coast ? he had about 700 miles of water,before he got to the coast ! Was it because the system was slightly elongated, and moving at 16 mph ? just curious....thanks


Structurally Don was not able to take advantage of the water temperatures. Combined which dry air intrusions, it was just too much for it.
Member Since: 31 augustus 2009 Posts: 3 Comments: 250
345. hotrods 9:31 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Good afternoon everyone, i was just reading Crown Weather and on his last statement he mentioned the same thing Levi said about the trough. That the trough just might miss 91L and the high building back in and forceing it back to the west when it is east of the Bahamas, intresting! But lets think about our fellow bloggers in the islands right now, as they may feel the impacts first.
Member Since: 22 oktober 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 89
346. TropicalAnalystwx13 9:31 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Jedkins01:
Imagine the nightmare of a thunderstorm if each raindrop was replaced with a high velocity bullet.


Why would you even think about that? XD
Member Since: 6 juli 2010 Posts: 89 Comments: 25142
347. NOLALawyer 9:32 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Orcasystems:
I need some help from people who have a more diplomatic approach to things then I do. I need
someone to help form a response to people who say a systems is a FISH. I understand that in their
mind, that people who are not from the CONUS, are not really human, therefore they don't really
count and the system can be called a FISH.

I really have a problem with that line of thinking, I personally think anyone who calls a system a FISH because it only endangers "non" US citizens, or Sailors... is a moron and shouldn't actually be allowed to breed, but that's only a personal opinion...

What I need is a Diplomatic way to tell someone they are an absolute Moron... suggestions would be appreciated.


The majority of the bloggers here are residents of the US. As such, their main concern is whether storms impact the CONUS. It is not that they feel non-US citizens are "not human," it is that they are concerned with whether a storm will land in their backyard, not upset shipping lanes to Nova Scotia. That is the primary reason why many visit here. So, while it may certainly be self-centered to dismiss a Hurricane that recurves away from the US as a "Fish Storm," it certainly doesn't warrant such a childish and venomous attack.
Member Since: 3 september 2009 Posts: 0 Comments: 517
348. stormpetrol 9:32 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
339. stormwatcherCI

Hi, Did you get plenty rain in EE today? WE had one or 2 good squalls here in SS and a real hard rain.
Member Since: 29 april 2007 Posts: 0 Comments: 6394
349. FrankZapper 9:32 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting Cotillion:
I think some of the comments on fish storms are just to wind others up as opposed to a genuine belief that only Americans matter.

For some, it's maybe just a narrow viewpoint that is given by experience: people have been hit so much that they only wanna know if it's coming their way. If it isn't, it's a sigh of relief and it stops there as opposed to then wondering who else it may impact.

Of course, a few are jingoists.

There are Americans on the islands, too. Puerto Rico and one half of the Virgin Islands. Tourists, businessmen, etc as well.

Beyond that, there's shipping as well as impacting on trade that ordinary Americans benefit from: banana trade, for example. Particularly in this globalised world we live in, everything is interconnected. Any impacts are passed on. Libya's a good example. The oil they produce is typically not used by the US, but it drives the price up when then impacts upon the price at the pump. That may well be by conflict, so it's a bit of a different scenario, but hurricane impacts work the same way, however small.

About as diplomatic as I can get it.
Quoting Cotillion:
I think some of the comments on fish storms are just to wind others up as opposed to a genuine belief that only Americans matter.

For some, it's maybe just a narrow viewpoint that is given by experience: people have been hit so much that they only wanna know if it's coming their way. If it isn't, it's a sigh of relief and it stops there as opposed to then wondering who else it may impact.

Of course, a few are jingoists.

There are Americans on the islands, too. Puerto Rico and one half of the Virgin Islands. Tourists, businessmen, etc as well.

Beyond that, there's shipping as well as impacting on trade that ordinary Americans benefit from: banana trade, for example. Particularly in this globalised world we live in, everything is interconnected. Any impacts are passed on. Libya's a good example. The oil they produce is typically not used by the US, but it drives the price up when then impacts upon the price at the pump. That may well be by conflict, so it's a bit of a different scenario, but hurricane impacts work the same way, however small.

About as diplomatic as I can get it.
It's all from the local prespective. I live in NOLA and the local TV personalities are always saying why it will go elsewhere. Then they say" of course we don't wish it on anybody".
Member Since: 26 mei 2011 Posts: 0 Comments: 1193
350. TropicalAnalystwx13 9:33 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting alcomat:
Was just wondering, why don didnt intensify over the gom, when water temps were very warm, and there was no wind shear until he got close to the texas coast ? he had about 700 miles of water,before he got to the coast ! Was it because the system was slightly elongated, and moving at 16 mph ? just curious....thanks


Well, because Don was such a small tropical storm, it was already susceptible to large fluctuations in intensity. Add to the fact that Don was dealing with a lot of dry, stable air, and moderate wind shear, and the system pretty much had no chance.
Member Since: 6 juli 2010 Posts: 89 Comments: 25142
351. summerland 9:33 PM GMT op 30 juli 2011    
Quoting tiggeriffic:


I think you diplomatically hit the nail on the head... no such thing as a "FISH" storm...it will affect someone somewhere somehow, either by damage to land or damage to shipping or fishing industry


This. Or if you want to throw numbers at them, you could say, "The combined population of the non-CONUS Atlantic Basin is ____. Besides that, there are thousands of shipping vessels and oil and gas platforms that could be diverted, delayed, damaged, or destroyed by so-called FISH storms. Yes, the risk to CONUS may be minimal, but the human risk to these populations and the financial risk to global companies with investments in the region -- not to mention global organizations like the IMF and the UN, which help pay for post-storm rebuilding -- should be a significant concern regardless of where you are."

Sadly, some people will only be swayed by dollar signs, and no humanitarian appeal will register.
Member Since: 30 augustus 2008 Posts: 0 Comments: 83

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About JeffMasters
Jeff co-founded the Weather Underground in 1995 while working on his Ph.D. He flew with the NOAA Hurricane Hunters from 1986-1990.

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